Talk Show Program Blog

Last Sunday on my talk show, and on his Tuesday TV show, Shawn McCraney insisted that I was attacking the Bible. In fact I was making observations from the Bible and about the Bible which could in no way be considered an attack on the Bible. Rather, the observations I was making argued against his narrow simplistic view of the Bible. There are many false ideas and traditions about the Bible which evaporate upon actually turning to the Bible.

For example, Shawn argued that if we turn to the sciences they prove the Bible and disprove the Book of Mormon. My contention is that both are religious books written for religious purposes and neither was written for any scientific purpose. I believe that attempts to prove the Divine origin or inspiration of either by resorting to science is misguided. Religious works are typically written for religious and spiritual persuasion. While both the Bible and Book of Mormon are complex works, the Bible more so than the Book of Mormon, I believe that it is obvious for both that their primary purpose is persuasion, not historical of scientific information. Also, to insist that the Bible is a scientific book has, and will, result in the loss of faith for many who back themselves into Shawn's corner where one must believe that Genesis is not an ancient story, but the actual manner and order of creation. Many who study the sciences will become disillusioned with the Bible if they have subscribed to Shawn's position.

We discussed the chronolgy of creation found in the first chapter of Genesis. It became a lively discussion. I was observing that the story in Genesis has the earth created before the sun and the stars; that makes the earth older than any other bodies in the universe, and further that the earth was covered with vegetation before the sun was created. I commented that this Biblical chronology of creation is not accepted by an overwhelming body of scientists worldwide in various scientific disciplines who have found persuasive reasons to believe that, compared to the sun and stars, the earth is very young and that the sun is necessary for the existence of plant life, thus believing that the earth was not covered with vegetation before the sun existed. Shawn's position was that the scientists are wrong and that I was attacking the Bible.

Many Christians subscribe to a different view of the Bible, myself included, which can accomodate the many instances where the Biblical account does not find support from science and history, or where the authors of different writings may disagree on common topics as we find in Genesis; Chronicles and Samuel; and on numerous points, great and small, in the four Gospels. I advocate learning from the Bible rather than imposing upon it some preconceived notion. This certainly is not attacking the Bible.

On last Sunday's program Shawn McCraney scoffed at the LDS belief that Jesus is their elder brother. Actually, LDS believe that he is their elder brother in addition to being one of the Gods in the Godhead. He is also the Son of God and is the elder brother of the other sons of God. I pointed out that this idea is clearly taught in the New Testament but was interrupted by him before I could supply several passages which present the kindom of God as a family with God as the Father, Jesus as the eldest son, the heir of the Father, and the others as Jesus' brothers and joint-heirs. Following are several of the many which teach this concept.

Hebrews 2:10-11

10Everything belongs to God, and all things were created by his power. So God did the right thing when he made Jesus perfect by suffering, as Jesus led many of God’s children to be saved and to share in his glory. 11Jesus and the people he makes holy all belong to the same family. That is why he isn’t ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters. (Contemporary English Version)

God is the last End of all things, the first Beginning of all things; and it befitted his majesty that, in summoning all those sons of his to glory, he should crown with suffering the life of that Prince who was to lead them into salvation. The Son who sanctifies and the sons who are sanctified have a common origin, all of them; he is not ashamed, then, to own them as his brethren. (Knox NT)

Romans 8:14-17, 29, 30

Only those who are lead by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. 15This Spirit you have received does not leave you in the old relationship to God of terrified slavery. No! This Spirit you have received makes you a son in the family of God, and through this Spirit we can cry to God: ‘Father, dear Father!’ 16This same Spirit joins with our spirit in the assurance that we really are children of God. 17If we are children of God, then we are heirs to all the promises of God. Yes, fellow-heirs with Christ, if our aim in life is to share his glory by sharing his suffering.

29For long ago, before they ever came into being, God both knew them and marked them out to become like the pattern of his Son, for it is his purpose that his Son should be the first and eldest of a great family. 30Not only did God mark out his own; he also called them. This call was an invitation to enter into a right relationship with himself, and for them this right relationship is the way to glory. (William Barclay New Testament)

14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15So you should not be like cowering, fearful slaves. You should behave instead like God’s very own children, adopted into his family–calling him "Father, dear Father." 16For his Holy Spirit speaks to us deep in our hearts and tells us that we are God’s children. 17And since we are his children, we will share his treasures–for everything God gives to his Son, Christ, is ours, too. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering. 29For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn, with many brothers and sisters. 30And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And he gave them right standing with himself, and he promised them his glory. (New Living Translation)

Last Sunday my guest was Shawn McCraney who hosts a weekly anti-Mormon television show in Salt Lake City and in Boise, Idaho. He argues that Mormons do not believe in being born again, contending that his interpretation of John 3:3-5, is the only legitimate interpretation. He denies that it has anything to do with water baptism. That Mormons believe it refers to being baptised and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, he does not consider as belief in being born again. Those who believe that "born of water" refers to water baptism and is essential for salvation, are not really born again and thus are not Christian.

Some years ago, I looked at every instance John 3:3-5 was cited in the early Christian writings collected in the 10 volume set Anti-Nicene Fathers, the Christian writings prior to 325, the date of the famous Nicene Council. I found that the universal interpretation in this set was that water baptism equals being "born of water." Through this ritual sins are remitted and it is, thus, required to enter the kingdom of God.

The modern interpretation of born again Christians, an interpretation which denies that Jesus was referring to water baptism as essential, is not found among any of these early Christian writers. From McCraney's position none of these Christians in the first 3 centuries were really Christians. It would be interesting to know when he believes Christianity began. His brand is of very recent origin. Quotations